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Autor:  José Roberto
E-mail:  josezambon@merconet.com.br
Data:  09/OUT/2003 11:15 PM
Assunto:  Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT
 
Mensagem:  Dear Mrobertson, now I felt a certain kind of urge to answer your states: MRobertson said:"if only things were so black and white" If things were so black and white we just would have Corinthians, Vasco da Gama, Ponte Preta, Santos...:) MRobertson said:"the so-called describers are setting up more rules than they would admit to" Hm-hm, but never do they impose their points of view, they set up the rules that simply exist within language (complex and mutant) like nature, Geology is out there to describe how the earth was, is and probably will be in some-millions of years from on and not to say that a ravine must be like that and this desert must be... MR said: "the so-called prescriptions are not as 'hung up' about rules as they are portrayed" Here in Brazil, for example, there is the pointless discussion on the usage of 'onde' and 'aonde' (where), in the end they are simply the same, the difference is stylistic (or are some master of the Brazilian literature wrong? They do not know the rules of portuguese....oh and what we simply mortal will do to learn them by heart????). MRobertson: "mother-tongue speakers of english who go to a country where a 'latin-derived' language is spoken are exposed for their lack of knowledge of the structure of their own languages because they have enjoyed the dubious benefits of descriptive grammar." Some of your dubious texts found on this forum are derived from this phenomenum? What are you talking about? We here speak a 'latin-derived language' and all the time what I see is the dos and don'ts on the use of the Portuguese language, as far as I know in elementary and high schools what dommains are the prescriptive explanation of the languages. MR said: "the benefits of descriptive grammar are plain - you don't have to learn anything formal or challenging, teachers don't have to teach anything which is causes 'student-resistance', and the overall 'dumbing down' as people fail to have an insight into the language they use makes everyone feel 'democratic'" Does this happen in Australia? For what I see here what happens is just the contrary, people perceiving little deviations of usage as a sin against the Holy Spirit,for one, if the benefits of the drescriptive grammar are plain I very douibts the benefinits of the descriptive grammar goes deeper (I've got plenty of Portuguese Grammar rules- they are almost the same, only explaining that one has to say,to do they do not care about explaning the "whies" in the end, what is "just the way it is?"). MR said: "personally if i'm gonna use a language to negotiate my way through life i'd like to have a solid knowledge of the structural features which define the limits of use - the 'descriptivist' mantra is very laid back and cool ("that's just the way it is!") - but the loss of knowledge associated with such an academic trend far outweighs the benefits" As you said....personally, if the mantra of descriptivism is laid back and cool (that's just the way it is) the mantra of the prescreptivism is right and dry, lifeless (that's just the way that we think that has to be and you've got to obey). In the end, one needs the other for descriptivism alone leads to looseness and prescriptism alone leads to nowhere for it refuses to move on! Thou art right! José Roberto


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 English Made in Brazil -- English, Portuguese, & contrastive linguistics
MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  Bruno Kober  05/OUT/2003, 9:59 PM
Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  Bruno Kober  05/OUT/2003, 11:24 PM
Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  Maria Valeska  06/OUT/2003, 11:21 AM
Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  mrobertson  09/OUT/2003, 7:48 PM
 Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  José Roberto  09/OUT/2003, 11:15 PM
Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  m robertson  10/OUT/2003, 6:27 AM
Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  Maria Valeska  10/OUT/2003, 11:27 AM
Re: MODALS - Answer to PAT  –  brownie  06/OUT/2003, 9:11 AM

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